94: Julia Chatain - Misconceptions and How to Crush Them like a Scientist
Lessons from a Scientist Redefining Tech-Driven Education
Senior Scientist Julia Chantin unpacks how cognitive biases and flawed feedback loops sabotage learning—and why SaaS leaders need to care. From debunking misconceptions (like why “proving” someone wrong often backfires) to the power of embodied learning, Julia reveals how diverse perspectives and physical interaction drive breakthroughs. Learn actionable strategies to challenge assumptions, build resilient teams, and design products that align with how humans actually learn - not just how we think they do.
"We need to reward effort, not just success."
01:20 - 07:30
Why Feedback Loops Fail (And How to Fix Them)
Julia breaks down why homogeneous feedback reinforces biases, the danger of “echo chambers,” and why SaaS teams need diverse perspectives to challenge assumptions.
07:30 - 14:45
Embodied Learning: The Science Behind VR, Physicality, and Retention
Deep dive into Julia’s research: How physical interaction (e.g., movement, touch) reshapes learning, why traditional education often misses the mark, and implications for SaaS product design.
14:45 - 22:00
From Theory to Practice: Actionable Strategies for Leaders
Tactical advice: Building resilient teams, designing experiments that embrace failure, and fostering curiosity over “convincing.” Includes Leah’s relatable analogies (e.g., gym consistency vs. learning).
22:00 - 28:50
The Emotional Side of Learning: Fear, Identity, and Incentives
Julia explains why emotional engagement matters (e.g., imposter syndrome, fear of failure), and how leaders can align incentives with sustainable learning processes.
28:50 - 33:00
Key Takeaways & Closing
Julia’s final wisdom: Why “explaining to understand” beats “explaining to convince,” and how SaaS leaders can start small (e.g., toy projects, cross-functional feedback).
Audio:
Youtube:
Connect!
Leah’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/
Julia’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-chatain-0a1aa660/
Julia’s Blog: https://thediverter.online/
Season 4 of the Product Tea
We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Thanks, Leah and Julia. Loved this episode!!!
One thing I’m curious about - does paper matter more to people who grew up learning on it? From what I’ve seen, younger students (25 and under) prefer digital for reading and note-taking, but only if laptops were part of their school experience. No hard data, just an observation.
So, in other words - do we use paper because it’s just what we’re used to, or is there a real cognitive benefit to physically taking notes, reading a paper book, and drawing by hand?
~20 mins:
I loved the point about learning and the connection with how we learn as children. I think the education system in most countries has been so focused on having students regurgitate content and not enough on teaching people how to figure it out.
I wonder whether this is an area where AI can help. In your SQL example, I wonder how your experiences would differ if you tried with an LLM as an assistant... my own experience learning new programming languages has been completely different to when I tried in previous years.